Marketing for Integrated Care with Dr. Larry Ford, DBH, LBHP, BC & Jackie Carro July 20, 2021

Marketing for Integrated Care Transcription

Hello, and thanks for joining us. This is disruptors at work and integrated care podcast, where all of the topics will be with subject matter experts, practitioners, and providers, leaders, and managers who are implementing integrated health projects all over the world. I’m your host, Dr. Cara English.

All right. Welcome everyone to the disruptive innovation podcast. Today, we are talking about marketing for integrated health care with Dr. Larry Ford and Jackie Carro. Dr. Larry Ford received his bachelor of science in behavioral science and ethics from mid America, Christian university in Moore, Oklahoma, a master’s in counseling with an emphasis in human relations from the university of Oklahoma.

And he received his doctorate at behavioral health from Arizona state university inspired by the volumes of studies that Dr. Ford completed on how infinitely the psyche affects the body. He founded hands to guide you as he fulfilled his doctoral studies in November of 2018. Dr. Ford has dedicated much of his career to analyzing and executing core strategies at decreasing excessive healthcare costs in the state of Oklahoma, which has significantly reduced health insurance coverage.

Known for his holistic approach to integrated care. Dr. Ford’s methods are proven to effectively decrease hospital readmission by 30% in Southwest Oklahoma city alone, his life’s work is built upon improving the way the world experiences healthcare and his practices is comprised, comprised of a compassionate, interdisciplinary treatment team that epitomizes skilled behavioral health services in Oklahoma and numerous other notable achievement.

In 2016, Dr. Ford received the prestigious Biodyne life-change award from Cummings graduate Institute, where in 2021, he was chosen as one of our board of directors members. So welcome Dr. Ford. Um, you, I will be sharing a couple of links where you can learn more about Dr. Ford hands to guide you and his let’s play sports, um, which is a new company that he founded in relationship to being chosen as one of a dozen preferred mental health professionals who are exclusively serving the national basketball players association.

Congrats on that. Dr. Ford. Our other guests today is Jackie Carro. She is president and owner of marketing ideals company. This is an Arizona based boutique agency, which was born 27 years ago out of an innate desire to see just how far her flair for marketing and entrepreneurial spirit would take her professional.

Marketing ideals company specializes in artistic branding, creating and implementing unique marketing strategies, launching public and media relations campaigns and producing events, which are big and small. The company serves a variety of clients representing diverse industries, such as medical and behavioral health, higher learning institutions, retail, tech, home improvement, and community for-profit and nonprofit organizations over the past few decades.

Her professional skill sets have changed. The landscape presents an infinite number of digital platforms, advice, advertising, methodologies, social channels, and required core competencies for success. So knowing that Jackie’s vision for the company continues to evolve, particularly in the medical and behavioral healthcare.

As the agency of record for hands to guide you, uh, Dr. Ford. Yeah, agency Jackie’s most recent endeavor along with Dr. Ford will explore mental wellbeing among athletes of all ages. As together, they build a sports marketing and management venture that focuses on the whole athlete, mind, body, spirit, ages, 16 and up.

The services will include branding, endorsements, aligning athletes with player and physical Scouts, college team recruitment, protein contract negotiation, mentorship programs, training, health, and wellness, coaching and support and marketing management and public relations. Her quote, relevant to marketing clients is in the world of marketing.

If making it our business to know what comes next is our north star. Then collectively passion. Fresh journalism and proficiency is our Venus. And you can learn more about Jackie and her company marketing ideals in the links that will be provided in the notes for this session. So again, welcome Jackie and welcome Dr. Ford. I’m so happy to be talking with you today. We, as you know, Dr. Ford, we get a lot of questions from doctors of behavioral health in our, in our DBH program. And those who have graduated about marketing there. And Jackie, you’ve been working with CGI to help us market ourselves as a higher educational institution, since we founded pretty much.

And we are just very, very blessed to have found you through. A connection in our community, through a tech organization that we were talking with. Um, and so I’m just so happy to have you both here. You’ve done so many innovative and interesting things, um, you know, partnering together. And I think that you represent a really good example of how a provider or a provider organization can really partner with a very innovative forward-thinking marketing company.

To create new things together. So I’m excited to hear more about what you’re doing today. So, um, let’s start by just opening it up with, talk a little bit about your partnership. Um, how do you come together? How do you work together? What are some of the key things that you do to, um, invigorate the relationship towards meeting shared goals?

Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Um, it’s such a joy to be here and it is such a pleasure to work with both CGI and Dr. Ford and Dr. Ford. And I started working together about it’s been about two years now. Um, and originally when we started talking Dr. Ford, well, first of all, Dr.

Port is always in throws of something. He’s very forward-thinking, he’s got great ideas. He is growing by leaps and bounds every day. And I think it’s because he is open to new ideas and he’s open to thinking more creatively about where to take the practice and how to get it there. And so when we started talking, it was more than just putting together a digital advertising campaign.

It was more than just. You know, strategizing the plan to take the practice to the next level. What was important to us was putting Dr. Ford out there as the face and the spokesperson for the practice to really define the culture of the practice and what hands to guide you stand for. And to really define, you know, where are the practices go?

Um, Dr. Ford has done a great job of staying relevant in the community and, uh, people love him and they love his team. And so it’s been, it’s been, you know, a joy and very easy to work with Dr. Port, like quite frankly. Yeah. I’m not surprised to hear any of that. We love working with Dr. Ford as well. We feel extremely lucky to have him now on our board of directors.

Dr port and I got our doctorates together. And then I became, uh, once I grew up, I think I was just maybe a year ahead of you Dr. Ford in the, in the DBH program. And then, you know, when we were founding CGI, you know, just, just from the get-go we have had unlimited conversations together about the program.

You’ve really helped to keep my energy level up despite the mountain of work that we do clinically and operationally and financially. So, well, tell me a little bit about, from your perspective, Dr. Ford, working with Jackie, and just from a marketing perspective, what are some of the things that Jackie has done for you that you have learned from her or benefited?

Uh, first I’d like to say, thank you for having me again on your show and I’m going to continue what you said, because that’s extremely important. Those that know me know me. Well, no, I’m a high energy guy. So the first thing that from the first, very first conversation that me and Jackie ever had, I knew right off, it was a connection and she gets, she gives me energy and she keeps my energy extremely high and she’s able to match my energy.

So with the conversation that the endless conversations that we were have as men you had got there all the time, Jackie added to my support team, into my support, and she was able to, you know, I’m able to call her literally whenever light early than matter. She answers and she listens and we put plans together and we put them, you know, in place and that’s been extremely beneficial.

You know, planning and, and having somebody that can match my energy and intensity and, and help me put it into place and very simple form. So that’s been the most beneficial for me, um, to say she’s great. She’s great. Great. Well, and I think that’s, that’s definitely something we at CGI have experienced with Jackie from the first I know, I know the first time that I met you, Jackie, I was like, wow, this is just, the ideas were popping.

I felt like we were just, I felt like I was sweating through my clothes. Like there were so many ideas that came up. I was just like, yes, yes, yes, yes. So, and you know, I think any conversation with Jackie was like that, and the same is true for you, Dr. Ford when we talk. And, and so it’s definitely. These matches were made divinely.

I think so to be good to be with people who match that energy level. And, you know, just to go back to the, you know, we have a mountain of work ahead of us. Healthcare is still in a sad, sad. Uh, nationally and globally, and, and there’s just a, you know, an infinite amount of work for us to do so when we get burned out or when we’re with, you know, sort of the energy vampire people who are all nos and no yeses, um, it can definitely get, you know, low energy.

And I feel like that that’s when my forward momentum gets a little clogged in the process. So, um, the pandemic definitely presented. Us all with a new world. And I know that you two came together very early on to talk about how do we, how do we do this? How, how are we going to. Um, not miss a beat with expanding access to people and, and, you know, helping people take those first steps to get the care that they need, the mental health care that they need, um, or to access integrated care for the first time.

Um, so can you tell me a little bit about, about that process? Sure. So, so one of the things that we knew early on was that we would have to offer telehealth services. Dr. Ford was already set up for virtual, uh, you know, inpatient consults simply because he offers membership programs through the practice.

And so he was already set up for that, but because the pandemic, um, you know, shut down some practices, didn’t allow us to bring patients into the office or a certain period of time. He had to expand that tele-health offer. And he did so quickly and we were able to see our patients and transition our patients from in-person visits to virtual visits.

Um, that went really well for us. Um, but what we also learned during that time is just how important, um, the in-person visits are just how important it is for our patients to come in and to engage with our team. One-on-one. So it really makes you appreciate that much more, um, the personal contact that you have with people, you know, that smile, the body language, that, you know, expression that a person gives you when they leave an appointment and they’re feeling so, so much better.

Um, all of those things are important. So we did what we needed to do during the throes of the parenting. Oh, we offered the virtual services, but as we were able to transition back, um, we do have patients coming back gladly, you know, into the practice and a lot of patients, new patients that we’ve been, you know, marketing to through referrals.

And also just through digital advertising, patients are traveling some distance to come and see doctor fours. So, you know, we appreciate, and we value. Virtual and in-person, but especially during the pandemic, I think what we learned was that we had to acclimate and that we had to quickly pivot so that we could accommodate everyone.

Yeah, definitely. Dr. Ford, do you want to add anything to that? I agree. Um, exactly what Jackie is saying. And there was extremely a difficult time for me. And the reason I say it was a difficult time. Roughly the last 25 years of my life, I’ve been in healthcare in some form or fashion. And the pandemic made everything different because for the first time in nearly three days, okay.

It’s healthcare was involved in the shift. It happened nearly overnight practices. Weren’t seeing patients, um, practices were causes hospitals weren’t even seeing advices. And then we had a population that was. Didn’t know how we were going to serve them routinely. Luckily we had already been practicing with tele-health just not on the scale that we knew we would take it to Protestant foremost.

So literally we made the decision, you know, in a matter of minutes, what we’re going to do and we acted on it and they say, now we know later looking on that it saved our practice. Right. And from that standpoint, we went from in the position to where we may not be able to see anybody to a position to where this is the busiest we’ve ever been in our history of existence due to telehealth.

And then all of my providers started virtual COVID. And then referrals started coming. Another thing we did is we shifted our marketing, you know, from the, from day one, you know, we get referral sources from other providers, primary cares, OB GYN, as hospitals, other providers in the medical community or those providers, weren’t seeing patients, or they were calling now in the beginning thinking that, okay, we’ll shut down for a month or two, let this pass.

The country, the nation, get it under control. We’ll open back up. Well, that day didn’t happen initially. So we shifted our marketing and we really went with, uh, some of the social media platforms. Um, And we started marketing there and you know, the word get out. And like Jackie said earlier, I had already positioned myself and being in, in the community, I’ve been a face in the community.

And then arguably the most desperate time in our country and city, they went with somebody they trusted, which is me, right. One of the things too, that we learned early on. Um, was that marketing to the patients directly versus marketing to the referring providers to different things. Right. So we had to elevate brand awareness when, you know, again, Dr.

Ford has a very good reputation in the community. So we built upon that. Um, but we really did start to advertise our membership programs simply because with more and more people, huh? More and more people, unfortunately, you know, out of work and without insurance, they still needed a way to connect to their therapists, right.

By running those. Special offers that we did. I remember the very first one that we did was we launched it black Friday, right after Thanksgiving through the first of the year. And Dr. Ford called me, you know, after the first of the year. And he said, I think I need to install some new phone lines or just, we’re getting so many calls on this.

So that was interesting. We had, you know, the right, um, The right verbiage in place, the right price point. And we were driving patients in directly versus having them come in by way of referral. More and more people were spending time too on their devices, especially at the beginning of the pandemic. So we really did optimize our social media platforms, Facebook being one of them.

And we initiated a mindful Monday. Uh, series. So every Monday, uh, we have something and it’s funny because people actually anticipate it now and engaged with it, but you know, it’s a motivational, um, it’s not a quote it’s, it’s really just content that reminds people about how important it is, um, for self-care how important it is, and to be brave and to be, you know, engaged in community and one another.

Even though these are, you know, trying times right now that this too shall pass. Right. So we were doing that. We were also, we also created some videos that publish every week and we really just started to bolster that social media. And then on top of that, I was just going to say on top of that, we really did start to build out Dr.

Ford’s psychology today. Interestingly is one of our biggest Rikers now by that at all. And I want to really quickly go to the Facebook posts. Um, so I took a look. Thank you for sending me the Facebook page as it turned out. I wasn’t following hands to guide you on Facebook. So now. Um, and I was let go through and, and, you know, take a look at the feed.

And the one thing I, the first thing that made me smile was the, the banner photo of the adorable little girl with the blue back, got a big smile. It literally made my face smile authentically. And I was like, this is boom, that right there, because so much of what my patients and my staff and, and me as a human.

Experiencing, and this is, this is everybody. Um, but just to share that personal, you know, experience during the year 2020 and, and into the year 2021 is negativity online. It’s overwhelming. You can’t look at the news without a hundred bad stories that make you feel horrible and, and, you know, make you feel disgusted, you know, make you feel down.

So to have your pay. Um, and you know, the updates coming from you that are, you know, just small little bits of positivity, mindfulness, which we know research base for mindfulness is without a doubt effective at fighting depression and, and reducing stress and reducing suicidal ideation and reducing anxiety.

So the mindful moments are huge. The imagery is calming, soothing. Beautiful to look at bringing smiles to your face. And so I think, you know, just that alone was a big step in the right direction for a company that is, you know, all about mind, body. So I want to congratulate you on a lot of those, you know, that the imagery, as well as the content.

And I also really like the testimonial Tuesdays. I love hearing those positive testimonials that are coming from those who are working with you. And I think those say a whole lot too. About the relationship, like you said, you know, it’s, it’s about the culture that you cultivate as a practitioner. It’s about the relationship you have with your staff members and that you and your staff members have with anybody who walks through the door.

But oftentimes from a marketing perspective, it’s hard to show that. Um, so I think, you know, you, you really hit, you’ve really hit the mark in a lot of ways. And I think it was so intelligent to use social media because you’re right, Jackie, everybody’s using their devices, you know, especially in the early days of the pandemic when you can’t see other people, you’re looking for the connectedness through social media.

And I also think it’s just such a great way to learn about hands, to guide you and what, what hands to guide you is all about. So, yeah, I think you did a lot of really intelligent things and, um, one of the things too, and I’m sorry to get on a soapbox here, but I just got to say working with you, Jackie.

One of the things I love so much about it is that you never come from a, okay. You need to do such and such. What I hear from you was always, okay, this is what we’re going to do. This is what we are doing. This is what our are our patients. So you have that, that partnership built in to the relationship you have and that’s key.

So I know Dr. Ford. You got to feel that too. I see you nodding saying, yeah. How does that feel for you? Cause I know for me, it’s just like, this is amazing. It feels amazing. And it’s overwhelming just hearing it from somebody else because the energy, the energy is so precedent and what, what I was thinking about actually, when you were saying that I’m looking at two, two and a half years, When me and Jackie first started and we were talking about things and we were grading, essentially our strategic plans and everything.

And me and Jackie, we talk about this all the time because now, you know, years have passed, but the progressing and where we are now is looks nothing like where we were before. And it’s just amazing. And I remember those days when, you know, it looks so far off, it looks all like, how are we going to do this?

How’s it going to work? And she’s just. This is the plan. This is what we’re going to do. And this is what it’s going to look like. And I’m just like, okay. And then we would go with the results are always works. You know, we went, you know, we’ve added, you know, the past couple of years we’ve added, I think three or four, four phone lines, you know, and arguably the worst times in healthcare were the busiest this year, last year was you started off slow.

And then we picked that. Was our busiest year, not the first quarter. This is, this is now our busiest year. We’re setting records every day and you know, we’re growing. Yeah. Cause I, you know, at the same time that you were seeing an explosion in growth for your business, I was working with some of our students, um, who were saying, you know, who were well, one in particular who was very.

Nervous because a lot he saw a dramatic decrease in the number of folks coming. One of the reasons was the referrals because his primary referral source was, uh, a school district. Um, and at the same time, he really, as a practitioner was very focused on the in-person interactions. And so telehealth was very concerning just from an ethical standpoint.

And so it took a while, but you know, getting him to that point where he accepted that this is the way we continue to see patients and keep the business thriving as well as we, we don’t limit access because they can’t come in and a person, you know, being able to be open to flipping things on a dime and going a hundred percent tele-health without missing a beat and just say, We’re gonna work with you patient.

We’re gonna work with you family. We’re gonna work with you provider. We’re going to, you know, do this via smartphone. We’re going to do it via laptop. We’re going to figure out a way to keep you going, because this is stressful for us, but it’s really stressful for you. So I think that was a big key to success.

Um, and I’m wondering, you know, Do you have, do you, have you seen things kill other businesses, um, that, you know, are kind of like cautionary tales and not naming any names obviously, but just, you know, think attitudes or, you know, strategies that have just not worked well. I think that I was just going to say, I think that it’s really important.

You touched on this before that reputation is everything. And we have an opportunity with all of these digital platforms that we have online, um, to show, you know, our reputation, good, bad, or indifferent, and it’s out there. So I think coming from a place of authenticity, coming from a place of genuine care, I remember one of the things that really struck me when Dr.

Ford and I spoke for the first time was that he said, You know, my patients, I might plan for my patients or my goal for my patients isn’t that they come and see me forever. And it definitely like we actually want them to get better so that they can live an optimal life so that they can be well and happy and move forward and become the person that they were meant to be.

And that they deserve. Okay. And so, you know, that comes through in everything that he does, and that’s why it’s important. Again, you know, staff is important the way that you, the way that you welcome patients and the way that you, you know, when they depart, when they’re done with their appointment, you know, if you ask for the review and they’ve had a great experience, you’re going to get your great review.

You just let them walk out the door. Okay. You know, you’re not really connected or engaged with patient who knows what will happen from there. Right, right. Very cognizant of that. Right. Yeah. Um, I have to say one of the, one of the things I like about what you just said, Jackie, is that it goes back to our training, Dr.

Ford and I were trained in the Biodyne model under Nick Cummins and Janet Cummings. And, and, you know, it’s, it’s the bill, the patient’s bill of rights that says my job is to make me obsolete. Yes, quality of life.

So I think, you know, what, what that tells me Jackie, is that, you know, part of a key to success is, you know, kind of flipping that, um, what doctor. I think warmly called the trained seal approach of psychotherapy that is outdated and inauthentic. If we’re really looking at wellness, which is you shouldn’t need a therapist for the rest of your life.

If you’re, if you’re not getting something that allows you to live more. Permanently and allows you to gain the skills that you need to do this on your own work. If we’re not doing that, we’re doing something wrong and that’s really, you know, our training. And so that tells me that, you know, Dr. Ford, something about.

You know, just the way you carry yourself, the way that you, you know, in all of your conversations, whether it’s a marketing partnership or a patient interaction or provider interaction, you’re really emulating, you know, that highly effective and highly ethical way of setting a person up to have the idea that wellness resides within them.

And working with us as doctors of behavioral health can help them unlock, you know, some of the. Just not known to them. That’s really exciting. Yeah. You were talking earlier. I was looking around and I couldn’t find one. I was looking for a box because what stuck out to me when you were speaking was we were never inside of the box and not think what hurts.

Well, I know what hurts providers and what hurts organizations is the failure to jump out of the box and get rid of the box. And that’s it. Um, Dr. Cummins book, as you know, you know, the box doesn’t exist in our world. They literally, it hasn’t been, it can’t, it won’t exist because success isn’t in the box.

It’s outside of the box. And we truly understand that even in critical situations and, you know, I was thinking. As you were talking, reviewing like the process and what happened. So I’m sitting here thinking, so I had my whole staff turn it, obviously I was trying to tell how food school and our programming was extremely familiar with tele-health, but I had a whole staff, my whole staff trained in tele-health and had access to telehealth on our website within seven days.

I really want to say three to five, but let’s say seven. So you know that. Provider satisfaction through the roof. Now they didn’t have to. Now they weren’t concerned with what would be the next to Kohl’s or what’s going to go on, how will we continue to work out where we have access to our patients. So that was the extreme momentum boost.

And we’ll use that in further it with everything else that we did from that point forward. And I have to say just as a side note, which is, is kind of fun. Now, looking back as we think. I remember there were a couple of pretty horrendous snow days, you know, and, and Dr. Ford would text or call and say, Hey, you know, the streets are not allowing people to, to drive today.

And I said, okay. So what would you like to do? And, and he would say, you know, just post something on social that our office is closed, but we are seeing patients. Um, schedule via tele-health like literally within less than 24 hours, everybody who was scheduled to come in was transitioned to a tele-health.

You know, you have to be prepared to be those things. And so know we were joking about the weather earlier and Oklahoma goes really a key to success from a business perspective and from a patient care perspective. So, you know, it’s, it’s about making sure that people get the appointments that they need that they’ve been looking forward to.

I mean, I, I had patients who could barely, you know, when I started seeing them, they could barely wait a week between between appointments. And then when they started to feel better, you know, they got to the point where they saw me on a monthly basis. But what if I would have canceled that monthly appointment?

Then they have to wait another month or another week, and they’ve been looking forward to it and writing little things down in their journal. They wanted to talk about during the appointment. And they had questions for me that I needed to go and ask their providers about so that I could get them some answers.

And so, you know, to think about just within, you know, less than 24 hours, being able to assure patients that they would have that access and that they would be able to have that appointment, um, is a huge. Differentiation and departure departure. From what I saw a lot of people doing, which was saying, we are we’re closed right now.

We can’t see you. Um, and a lot of times it was a risk based decision. They were worried about their license. They were worried about their liability. They were worried about this, worried about that. Worried about. We’ll do our patients have virtual access. Pretty much. We know that the percentage of individuals in the United States that have a smartphone is very high and if they don’t have a smartphone, they have a telephone.

So being able to say, we will connect with you. If you can’t connect through zoom or a telehealth appointment, we can connect with you via phone. And we’re going to get this covered and to not make that the burden to not burden the patient with, well, how are we going to get paid for that visit to me that makes all the difference.

And we even changed nothing about that. We’ve even changed our phone on us still. Once we went virtual, we went so with everything. So now we have a hundred percent access from home, you know, and what, you know, as doctor was saying earlier, though, the weather in Oklahoma can be extremely different. I’m extremely different days.

So. In the past, who it’s at times it was a risk getting on the road and getting providers on the road to make sure that, like you just said, our patients get to see us and they don’t miss their appointments. They’ve been waiting on this. So we went with, uh, VIP, um, for all our phone lines and fax machine and everything.

So now we literally, we literally can be a hundred percent virtual within minutes. Again, that’s not only patient satisfaction, that’s provider satisfaction too, which helps you’re. Right. And I think that’s something that I didn’t really think about until you just said that, but, um, I know that, you know, from a liability perspective, from a risk management perspective, right.

There’s so much fear on the part of providers and without having the assurance that, you know, this is going to work and you are going to be okay, it’s not going to hit your license. You know, you’re not going to lose your license because I think a lot, so much much of what we do in healthcare is risk management instead of wrap around the patient.

And when you do that, you do the right thing by patients. Your license will be secure. You will be okay. As long as you’re making the decision in the direction of an, in the benefit of the patient to keep them well, to keep them moving forward, to keep them connected to you. I think sometimes when people make those risk-based decisions and those fear-based decisions, they actually hurt themselves more because that’s what causes patients to be unhappy is saying, well, you know, my doctor is not providing tele-health.

So now I have to get a new counselor if I don’t feel comfortable coming in in person, you know? So like again, I just see you making these decisions in the direction of the patient and then providing your staff and your providers with the assurance and the safety and security that foundation from which they can practice doing what they do best at the top of their license.

Yes, that’s true. Can I just say that, you know, it’s. To, um, provider’s part, um, to make those investments and to always be forward thinking and to always be anticipating what comes next, what comes next? Because inevitably it will come next. Something will come next that you need to be prepared for. And so in order to serve your patient, you know, you always have to be thinking of those things.

And I, I think too, that one of the things that the pandemic in particular, um, taught me. Is that, especially in the behavioral healthcare arena, um, the integration of behavioral health and primary care, and also, uh, pain management, acute and chronic pain management care, those things go together. And so what we’re seeing too, from patients, and this is one of the reasons in Dr.

Ford Alex to, um, talk about H G Y health, um, at some point. I think that what we’re learning is that patients get better care when it’s integrated care, better care when their behavioral. Specialist or their therapist or never there, you know, meeting with weekly, monthly, however often, you know, that there, that person is in communication with your primary care providers.

Um, because it’s fine. You know, you’re dealing with medication management, you’re dealing with chronic pain issues that can be the result of, you know, depression, a behavioral health care issue, or a mental health care. And so that’s something that Dr. Ford has just jumped straight into both feet. Well, Larry, I’m wondering if you feel the same way that I do after all of these years specializing in integrated care.

If I’m talking to a provider that isn’t looking at, the behavioral and emotional and spiritual aspect of healthcare, I get really annoyed. And I feel like I’m talking with a dinosaur, you know, so before we started recording today, I was telling you all about, uh, uh, you know, an experience that I had, you know, recently in my own health care.

Um, and I think part of my annoyance, and as I mentioned, you know, I’m an expert in what I do. So when I walk in that door, I’m interviewing you. And if you’re not talking about integrated care, if I have to specifically ask you about, well, what can I do behaviorally? What, what, you know, what psychological principles apply here and you don’t know, and I have to go and Google that myself or, or here’s the deal.

I know. Going in, right. I’ve already Googled it if I didn’t know previously, and you’re not talking about that. I don’t want to work with you

and I don’t want my family working with you or my patients working with you. And it’s just meaning to cause more. It’s just going to cause more barriers. And do you know how much it’s going to cause that we’re going to have to fix somehow or that the patient is going to have to deal with? So why do we want to send you to a place where we know that’s not going to be integrated into your care?

And, you know, it’s, it’s, we cannot be the whole team and, and you can speak to this, you know, more eloquently than I, but isn’t it proven aren’t there studies that show that patient outcomes are more successful. That they’re better when there is communication and integration between both the Gabriel. And physical health.

Oh yeah. That’s that’s what the doctor behavioral health program was built on. A lot of the resources. Then early on by Dr. Cummings and you know, some of his contemporaries, the medical cost offset model has demonstrated time and time again, that when care’s integrated costs are reduced, um, you know, we save healthcare dollars by, by integrating care from the get-go.

Um, and you know, for patients who the more complicated or complex the person’s care, the more medically fragile they are, the more critical the need for integration. Because without that, you know, communication and collaboration amongst the medical team, patients fall through the cracks in, in between siloed care patients, don’t see a silo between their mental health and their physical health, but providers have been trained in silos.

So with doctors of behavioral health, Like Larry said, we threw away the box. There isn’t a box. We don’t live in a box. All we see as a whole person. So what we’re expecting is to be able to say across the continuum of their care, with any number of specialists and primary care physicians or providers that are working with them, we can communicate across that.

And we know at least. A little bit about every bit of care that they’re receiving, but what we consistently see as providers is that no one else is getting that training and everybody else wants to kind of stay in that box because that’s where they feel comfortable. Um, there have been lots and lots of trainings available to providers telling them you need to stay within your scope.

So if your scope of work is I’ve been trained as a primary care physician and you’ve had no training in behavioral health. That doesn’t mean you can’t go and get the training, but it’s a, it’s a narrative that providers have been sold by training programs that are outdated. And so for us, as doctors of behavioral health, we’re a little bit of angelical about the integrated care model about throwing out the box, because we know what the research says, our patients and we, as, as human beings, Are also consumers of healthcare.

So we know what’s best for us and for our patients, but we need the rest of the medical world working with us to collaborate, to communicate, to integrate that care. And so, you know, it. It’s great to know that in Oklahoma city, at least Larry has been doing such wonderful things. Jackie, that your partnership with Larry and with hands to guide you is helping him to grow and scale and create new opportunities that the next, the national basketball players association, um, let’s play sports company is really interesting to me.

I kind of would like to hear about that. Where are you going next? Well, that’s something that we started, um, just, uh, to cause mental health and mental health of the athlete is extremely important. You hear a lot of sayings, it’s 90% mental and just on the news, you see more and more athletes struggling mentally to perform and the weight of the world on them.

And there was something that I got interested in, um, a while back. And there was a conversation that me and Jackie, yeah. And we put it into place. And we went through, we went through the application process and went through the hoops and the hurdles that we had to get to. And I was selected to be one of the members, the may and through continued conversations with Jackie, you know, that’s on a professional level.

So we know my boys play sports and, and, and, you know, Oklahoma is a sports state. So we looked at. The college athletes and the, the high school average. And there was a way for me to yeah. Get back in there in the realm of mental performance, no helping kids cope, you know, with the pressures that come with sports and they stopped playing sports with life.

Some of the highest adverse childhood experiences in the country, you know, athletes experience a lot of different things and are required to perform. So it was a way for me to help athletes. And, and give back in a way I present myself and be more into the community. Right, right. More trusted in the community.

Do you know, especially among athletes, I think that the mental health aspect of being an athlete historically was, was really overlooked. It was, you know, suck it up, be strong, be brave, you know, get out there and kick ass. I don’t think a lot of players, organizations, or, you know, teams in general really put the focus on the psychological aspect or the spiritual aspect of being a human being in your body in a way that not every human being does.

I happens, but what happens when life happens and you have to perform in front of 50,000, 20,000 or 10,000 or 5,000, or what happens when your parents aren’t there? A tragedy tragedy happens. It happens, you know, there was another gap in care. Um, doctor, you know, we’re all about filling gaps and there was a huge gap.

And that started another organization to fill that gap gap in care and, and be present, present, and another form in the community and gain trust because that’s one of the things that me and Jackie talk about and speak about a lot, um, in, in, uh, in our means and talk is being present in the community and being trusted in the community, which is extremely relevant and important.

Well, and I think you, you build that reputation further in the community by being willing to take those steps. So if you identify a gap and then you do something about it, people say, wow, he’s really, he’s re you know, he’s really passionate about this. He’s really doing something about it. So again, it’s that reputation of, yeah.

I mean, what I say. Yeah. Um, know on the weekends when Dr. Ford is out. Twin boys and they’re performing and playing all over the, all over the country. You might want to brag a little bit about them out of them, but you know, they’re, they’re youngsters, they’re in middle school, but you know, they do carry the way to blow on their shoulders when it comes to, um, sports performance.

And, you know, they have. Parents who support them, love them. Are there at every game who care for them, who makes sure that they get their physical training, who makes sure that they are eating well. You know, there are a lot of young athletes that don’t have that support system. And so I love that, you know, Dr.

Ford decided that he would somehow become that support system for athletes who don’t have it. Yeah, very much. So, you know, we were talking earlier about the box and I say all the providers are comfortable on the box, but the most important person, which is the patient and then the box, right? So with Sona, we get out of the box and get where they’re at, meeting them, where they’re at the better off we’ll be in the better service, we’ll be able to do them better.

Um, we’ll be able to help them, um, many different levels. It doesn’t matter where they are or what the condition. Absolutely. I could, I could not agree with you more. And, um, so that kind of leads me to my next question, which is what do you see as sort of the next steps for you to, in your partnership or, you know, from a, from a marketing perspective and also from, you know, what else can we do from an integration perspective, whether it’s in Oklahoma or elsewhere, what are, what are the next steps?

We’re definitely going to explore the idea of, um, creating a sports marketing and management venture together, but that will include, you know, the mental health component and, and one thing that we should mention. And, um, one of the ways that Dr. Ford is. Actively proactively. And I think successfully, um, meeting the challenge of integrated care and the lack there, uh, is that he’s bringing primary care two hands to guide to guide you is not only at behavioral health, um, practice, but come summer, probably July.

Uh, we’re looking at HTP life. And there will be two components to that practice, behavioral health care side, and also the primary, uh, family care side. And so with that in mind, you know, we will be treating and caring for families, um, kids, uh, when you look at the athlete, um, and you talk about what are the next steps, as far as exploring that, um, idea of marketing and managing athletes with the idea of mental health.

Now, again, a lot of these kids make a decision early on in life. This is what I want to do. I want to play football or I want to play basketball. And you know, they’re too young to really navigate that pathway on their own. And like I said before, some parents are right there and some kids don’t have the luxury of having their parents support them on that end.

So that’s what this new venture will be about. Um, you know, whereas most sports management marketing companies are looking at the college or pro athlete will be looking at the younger ones to see, you know, where do they want to go? How do they want to develop, what did they want to do in life? And how can we help them yet?

Yeah. Yeah. So there’s some that we spent a lot of time talking about and fine. And now we’re ready to move forward. And this is something as you know, back where you have been working very long time, that many labs, many nos, but through persistence and time, we’ve been able to get to this point, looking at possibly getting a new location and really prepared to serve the city and the community with that.

I reside in from the best possible. Right. And that’s one of the things that I think, you know, there, there are a small group of us doctors of behavioral health who went to school together, you know, maybe not all graduated together, but that I know I can always count on to reach out and have a really blow your mind conversation.

It’s five minutes or 15. And I always, you know, I really appreciate that about you. And, and that’s one of the things I love about this partnership that you have with Jackie, because like I said, she’s a, DVH in her, in her mindset, you know, she’s DBH of marketing. Yeah, definitely. Sorry. There’s it gave me energy and she keeps me, she keeps me going.

Yeah. Well, um, we’re kind of at time here. So I want to thank you both for your time and definitely congratulate you on the many pretty mind blowing accomplishments that you’ve made just in the past year. Um, but also in the past, you know, like you said, two and a half years together, and certainly there’s so much excitement that lies ahead of you in this partnership.

And I can’t wait to continue to follow what you’re going to do and. See it grow and make huge changes in the, in the healthcare community and make big differences in the lives of those that you, that you serve. So thank you for your work.

All right, guys. Well, thanks so much again for being here today. Thank you.

Okay. Okay.